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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:57 pm 
Axe Warrior
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Ok, Thanks.

Now, the last point that bother me... In the example of "Birgit Schneider" right above... The titans, in their basic characteristics do have "Fire resistance : 30". So, how do you integrate this resistance to the reduction of damages ? 1.48 is the fire resistance bring by the hero... But the fire resistance of the troop itself, how does it reduce the damages ?
Is it minus 30 fire damages ? Or minus 30% of fire damges so it should then be 1.78 instead of 1.48 ?

Thanks for your help.
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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:09 am 
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Birgit, I just finished analyzing your calculations, and they are correct, except:
Quote:
Image


What is this number?

The only thing from your input data involving "3" I haven't used is "firefly flame shield". But fireflies have no defense abilities that would affect other units than themselves. ;)

----

And Pierre, the fire resistance (or any other defense ability) of your opponent has no influence on your losses, only his damage does. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:00 pm 
Axe Warrior
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I mean the TITAN do have a 30 fire resistance (can be seen in the unit details as per life, kind and amount of damages, ...). In your Calculation this does not appear... I guess it is the "0.3" Birgit added and you wondered about... If it is not involved here, where is it involved ? Because if this is not used at all, why do we use runes and resources to upgrade units resistances' in the laboratory ?


EDIT :
In your example n°3 you said :
Tear wrote:
Example 3

[...]

Troops' health & resists
A.
bone golem: 540 HP (40 % cold resist)
acolyte: 100 HP (20 % normal resist)
B.
archdruid: 480 HP (40 % cold resist)
firefly: 130 HP (100 % fire resist)

Losses summary
A.
Bone golems: 7467/1,4 (cold resist!) + 11 900 = 17 234 damage
17 234 / 540 HP = 31 bone golems die
Acolytes: 14 933 + 23 800 = 38 733 damage
38 733 / 100 HP = 387 acolytes die
B.
Archdruids: 6800/1,4 + 16 000 = 20 857 damage
20 857 / 480 HP = 43 archdruids die
Fireflies: 10 200 + 24 000/2 = 22 200 damage
22 200 / 130 HP = 170 fireflies die


So, if in this case the Hero provide 40 cold resist... Shouldn't we have :
Quote:
Losses summary
A.
Bone golems: 7467/1,8 (unit cold resist! + Hero cold resist !) + 11 900 = 17 234 damage


If you take the exemple from Birgit you will see that the "+0.3" stands for TITAN fire resist Ability, then come the "+0.48" from HERO fire resist Bonus.

Or maybe both Birgit and I didn't understood how TROOP resistance ability is combined to HERO resistance bonus...

This is where we need more explanations...

By the way, you gave the "virtual" upkeep for tower, fire elements, cold guardians, but what is the value for Changelins ?
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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:22 pm 
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But Birgit doesn't have any Titans. ;) Her question was why her archer died, and that is what we both were calculating.

If she would have asked why didn't she kill all the Titans in the camp with her damage X, that would be that kind of calculation where we would use resistance of Titans.

As far I know I used all relevant data from her post. I don't know what she meant with "0,3" but I doubt she meant resistance of her enemy with it.
(by the way, only a runesmith provides his fellow warriors with additional fire resistance. A Titan doesn't have any skill that would be applied on other units than himself)

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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:56 pm 
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I misread (not sleeping during the night is not a good idea for calculations ^^).

I assume my point about adding Troop resistance (on the kind of damage they are resiting too) with hero resistance bonus was correct ?

And what about the upkeep of Changelins ?
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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:18 am 
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Hello Tear,

the 0.3 from my calculations that you did not understand is the fire resistance for the Archers. This is also missing for your calculations:
Tear wrote:
The runesmiths:
48 fire resist reduces their damage to 28,12 (41,62/1,48)
It should rather be 41.62/1.78 = 23.38. Then we have a total damage of 30.37 + 23.38 = 53,75 for the Archers (matching my original calculations), which is lower than the 54.72 total LP.

So again, did I make some other mistakes?

Best regards,
nussi/Birgit

PS: I'm sorry, I used the ',' before as fractional delimiter, which is not correct in English notation.
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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Hi Tear,

would you be so kind and give us some informations in this case?

Thanks in advance
Birgit
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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:31 am 
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Birgit Schneider wrote:
Hi Tear,

would you be so kind and give us some informations in this case?

Thanks in advance
Birgit


Hi Birgit,

Tear is on holiday, traveling through South America. ;) I will try to find a moment to go through it myself, but since I have to go through the entire conversation, it may take me a while, I am sorry. :D Numbers. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:00 pm 
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Hello Tear, Bea,

I'm a little disappointed, that there still is no explaination to our observations. So let me push this thread again with a recent "incident" of the same kind (and yet some more numbers, sorry Bea ;-)). As far as I know, there is no possibility to link or copy the battle reports from Emporea to external media like this forum for example, but maybe you'll be able to find it in your database with this information: Player account [email protected], player name "Ssafjee" on world Selene; we repeated the same attack twice to verify that the result is reproducable, the first time at 3rd of Jan 2015, 08:29:37 server time and the second time at 17:49:46 o'clock.

Ssafjee attacked a Guarded Treasury defended by 108 Warlocks, 151 Ice Fiends and 241 Wolf Riders. According to our calculations, the following should yield no losses for Ssafjee, yet 1 Ice Fiend of his own died in the first battle round. As before, I only provide meaningful data for the calculations.

Attacking troops
  • 3 Skeletons
  • 8 Grunts
  • 8 Gyrocopters
  • 8 Wolf Riders
  • 3 Flamekin
  • 7 Frostguards
  • 9 Frost Fiends
  • 7 Warlocks
  • 7 Arachnids
  • 5 Saurians
  • 1 Stonegrinder
  • 1 Seraphim
  • 1 Frostbane
  • 7 Hell Brutes

Research improvements to the Frost Fiend:
  • Frostskin level 1 + 1 (from Military Research)
  • Frostspikes level 7 + 1 (from Military Research)

Hero bonuses:
  • +115 % HP
  • +30 fire resistance
  • +56 ice resistance
  • +81 physical resistance

So Ssafjee's Frost Fiends have about 3.35 % upkeep in this troop constellation and they have a total of 1913.5 HP. In my calculations I ignored the beneficial effect of Frost Blessing, which increases the frost resistance of all units by 3.4 %. This should never be a problem, since this way I assume that the units suffer even more damage than what will be actually dealt to them. So if all units survive in the simulation, they are guaranteed to survive the actual battle, too. In said simulation, the Frost Fiends should sustain only 1901.03 points of damage, which definitely is less than 1913.5 HP, yet one Frost Fiend died (99.4 %). The difference this time is too big to be explained by illogical rounding of numbers, so I ask you again, can you please explain where we made a miscalculation?

Thank you for your time,
Birgit aka nussi.
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 Post subject: Re: Damage distribution
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Posts: 185
Hello,

I will write you my reply tomorrow, I want someone here to check my calculations before I make them public, just to be sure - I would not like to be misleading here. ;)

Thanks for the patience!

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